NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/sys/amiga/misc-part1/712

Internet Message Format | 1996-08-05 | 8.0 KB

Path: news.mcs.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Eric Szulczewski)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: The March Amiga?
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 96 17:04:01 CST
Organization: Principle of Obscurity BBS
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: obscurity.pd.mcs.net


In a message dated 01-04-96 22-00 Gary Alan Peake writes:

GP> >But you are an AT apologist, Gary.  Whenever anyone criticizes any move
GP> >that AT makes that they might disagree with, you jump in on their side.
GP> >Some of your arguments were so convoluted in your defense of them that
GP> >you sounded like Kittel's water boy.

GP> That's your opinion and you are welcome to it. I happen to have more
GP> respect for the man than to insult him with some of the crap that has been
GP> flung his way in this echo ... and this is MY opinion, which I am entitled
GP> to.

I think that the people who went after Dr. Kittel went after him only
after he starting making what were (in my opinion, of course)
ill-judged statements.  We appreciate the information he's been giving
us, but when he comes out with statements that fly in the face of
reality, of course he's going to get doused.  I only started to
question his judgement after the "1200s don't need HDs" statement.  I
would have stopped quickly if he'd fully explained it, but he didn't
bother with that.  Instead he went into defense mode and tried to
justify it without explanation.

GP> If nothing else, Dr Kittel has made an honest effort to be here giving
GP> us what tidbits he could when no one else was here to keep us informed.
GP> And for taking the risk of passing info to us, he got a lap full of water
GP> from everyone who could toss a drink at him. Pretty poor manners, even for
GP> a Usenet crowd!

We've not upset with him over the information, as I said before.  We're
upset about those statements he made.  But this is opening up that old
can of worms that we successfully sealed up with great effort before,
and I think both you and I don't want to get into that again.

GP> >And please note the words "When the specs come out for the 1300...".
GP> >I'm not talking about the PPC Amiga; I'm agreeing with Poag (please
GP> >halt for a second while I shake my head in disbelief that I actually
GP> >said that again) that the 1300 is a mistake.  Old technology in the
GP> >guise of a new computer will hurt AT's rep.  And no matter what you
GP> >think about me and my feelings about AT,

GP> Ah, stop right there! I don't have any ill feelings towards you. Life is
GP> too short and there are too many important things that take precedence
GP> over getting upset or disliking someone who has a different opinion than
GP> mine. This is a hobby, not a vendetta!!

And I know that you don't have any ill feelings toward me (and the
feeling is mutual, by the way).  What I was referring to in that last
fragment above was your feelings about whether I wanted the Amiga to
survive.  I want it to thrive, live, germinate, and grow in the hearts
and workrooms of the world.  I wanted to make that perfectly clear not
only to you (because I think you know that), but to the people out
there who might think that because I'm not "loyal" to AT, I'm against
the Amiga.  I'm no Marc Barrett or Sinclap, folks.

GP> Differences of opinion are GOOD things. It keeps the dishonest honest. And
GP> it makes people think. I may not agree with you, but I do agree with your
GP> right to disagree on anything. And I respect that right. Besides ... you
GP> make an excellent 'devils advocate'!  :)

Thank you, Voltaire.  And don't we make a great pair?  Mystic Meg and
the Devil's Advocate.  Could make a great ad line, huh?  "Amiga:  the
computer for those who worship Satan!"

GP> >I don't want to see that
GP> >happen, because that'll mean a second death for the Amiga.

GP> So, how does Amiga Technologies gather cash for R&D? Produce product.

It's a rather vicious Catch-22, not to mention a no-win situation in a
sense.  "We can't have R&D without money, so we'll sell these old
systems.  But the old systems are selling, so why should we put money
into R&D?"  I know, simplistic and probably not true, but it's the
exact line of thinking that went into the 600.

There are questions that have to be asked when it comes to this
subject.  We as Amiga users have incredible power over the decisions
made at AT due to the fact that we're the ones buying this system.  I
think that these questions are valid, but corporations, like any other
physical entity, tend to follow the path of least resistance:

1) By buying the 1200s and 4000Ts out there, we are contributing to the
coffers of AT's R&D efforts.  But do we want outdated machines?
Especially with the PPC announcement.  Amiga owners are patient by
nature when it comes to the system.  How many people won't wait a year?

2) By buying the 1200s and 4000Ts, are we showing approval as a group
toward this technology, which most everyone here says is outdated?  If
we are, will AT also think we approve and delay, or even worse, not
really bother with the PPC for a while?

3) If we wait and not buy the systems available now, will AT go
belly-up, in which case we'll never see a new Amiga system?  It looks
like Escom is looking to see whether or not AT will sink or float, and
if it starts to sink, will Escom pull the trigger?

I hope that none of these are true, and that AT does have the best in
mind for the Amiga, but illustrated like that, it is a no-win
situation.  The question has to be put out, and I hope that
Kittel/Bourdin can refute this line of argument.

GP> Maybe so, maybe not? The 1200 is still an excellent entry level (and when
GP> expanded) beyond entry level computer. Remember that the biggest market is
GP> NOT in NA at this time. The North American market will NOT be captured
GP> with the likes of the 1200 or the 4000T. It will take PPC or a Power Amiga
GP> to compete head on.

Well, we can argue about the 1200 until the cows come home.  I don't
think it's "excellent", but it's good on a marketing standpoint for
attracting people to eventually buy the bigger systems.

The biggest market for the Amiga isn't NA, but NA is still the biggest
market in the world for computers (until the EU becomes a little more
technologically sophisticated and capable in all its member countries;
no insult, Eurofriends, because you have been catching up quickly, but
we in NA are still the biggest).  The PPC Amiga can make a killing
here, but there's a limited time frame.  It has to be done and
introduced prior to the abolition of the P6.  In order to make inroads
into the computer market, AT has to gain the worldwide acceptance of a
DOS or Mac box, and that means NA.  They can't focus simply on Europe,
unless they want to accept second-class citizenship in Cyberworld.

GP> >But I wasn't talking about any of this.  I was wondering how you were
GP> >going to justify the 1300 if it's anything like the rumors of what
GP> >we've heard it will be.

GP> I don't HAVE to justify it. That's Amiga Technologies problem IF they
GP> decide they need to 'justify' anything they do to anyone. But, it is easy
GP> to see what they are doing and to know why. It's spelled C-A-S-H ...
GP> something that every company needs to finance R&D and marketing.

It just seems to me that "We're doing this to get money" is a rather,
uh, how to put this, grubby way of justifying the 1300.  Acceptable,
but grubby.

No, what I really want to see, Gary, was your justification on the
technological end of it all.  I wanted to see you fly through hoops
saying that this was the greatest thing in the universe and that
everyone at AT were geniuses for putting the 1300 out.  However, I
don't think you'd really do that, even if you are the most gormless AT
camp follower on occasion.  But the disguises are off.  If AT does the
1300 for money, that's perfectly fine and a good thing in the minds of
everyone here.  But trying to disguise that with other reasons would be
disingenuous.  Glad you and I both see it that way.

Eric Szulczewski
[e-mail]
Member, Team AMIGA
The Devil's Advocate


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